《异度传说》三作全部通关后的感想

osk666

一部分的说,扫描的人可能觉得这书除了这设定部分都没有什么意义吧...

该用户已被禁言

下面是引用osk666于2007-11-11 13:09发表的:

偶都说了很多遍,那不是即时演算,而是CG的说.
虽然EP1诚意很高,但偶还是要说,人设不好,战斗系统不喜欢的说...

不错，所有答案都在里面，为何不直接把这些答案搬到游戏的database里面去？namco骗钱啊！

性感美少年

我把osk同学提供的scan版看了。

里面的确是把database里面没有说清楚的一些东西讲明了。解开了我的不少疑惑。再次感谢osk同学。

不过，关于chaos的安全阀力量，我还是没有搞得很清楚。

根据scan版里面的解释，意识存在于虚数领域，并且虚数领域内的深层次，所有的意识之间没有阻隔是相通的。也就是说人对于他人的憎恶，嫉妒之类等等的一系列不愿意为他人所知的感情在这里也是相通的。因此人的意识对此害怕和恐惧，因此希望逃离“集合无意识场”——也就是虚数领域。如果10个人的集团里有9个人都脱离了，那么集团就不再是集团。期望逃离的意识如果都脱离了，那么，就相当于虚数领域的逸散和崩坏，与此一一对应的实数领域也将逸散和崩坏。

chaos的力量是“当宇宙的系统发生异常时予以弥补和修正，防止异常影响到系统整体。”因此，当出现了期望逃离的意识时（这个意识将导致宇宙的崩坏，因此被认为是系统异常），chaos的力量便负责将逃离的意识给***掉，使宇宙初始化（这个初始化是什么意思我不明白。为什么要把宇宙初始化？）

有一种人的意识能够主动链接chaos的阿尼玛力量，这种主动形的意识使chaos的安全阀力量发挥的准备时间缩短，因此，这加速了宇宙的逸散。（这里就完全不明白了。明明是安全阀，为什么反而会导致崩坏的加速？）

————————————————————————————————————————————————
以上为我的疑问，不过其他的东西到是解释得很清楚……

性感美少年

我把osk同学提供的scan版看了。

里面的确是把database里面没有说清楚的一些东西讲明了。解开了我的不少疑惑。再次感谢osk同学。

不过，关于chaos的安全阀力量，我还是没有搞得很清楚。

根据scan版里面的解释，意识存在于虚数领域，并且虚数领域内的深层次，所有的意识之间没有阻隔是相通的。也就是说人对于他人的憎恶，嫉妒之类等等的一系列不愿意为他人所知的感情在这里也是相通的。因此人的意识对此害怕和恐惧，因此希望逃离“集合无意识场”——也就是虚数领域。如果10个人的集团里有9个人都脱离了，那么集团就不再是集团。期望逃离的意识如果都脱离了，那么，就相当于虚数领域的逸散和崩坏，与此一一对应的实数领域也将逸散和崩坏。

chaos的力量是“当宇宙的系统发生异常时予以弥补和修正，防止异常影响到系统整体。”因此，当出现了期望逃离的意识时（这个意识将导致宇宙的崩坏，因此被认为是系统异常），chaos的力量便负责将逃离的意识给***掉，使宇宙初始化（这个初始化是什么意思我不明白。为什么要把宇宙初始化？）

有一种人的意识能够主动链接chaos的阿尼玛力量，这种主动形的意识使chaos的安全阀力量发挥的准备时间缩短，因此，这加速了宇宙的逸散。（这里就完全不明白了。明明是安全阀，为什么反而会导致崩坏的加速？）

————————————————————————————————————————————————
以上为我的疑问，不过其他的东西到是解释得很清楚……

osk666

其实关于这个解释,COMPLETE GUIDE里解释得并不完全,之后出得PERFECT GUIDE里能把这问题说得清楚点的.
那个SCAN版偶就没有了,英文翻译版倒是能找到:
14. What is the Universe's Failsafe?
Born from the Collective Unconscious, the power of Anima possesses the "failsafe function of the universe". Whatever kind of thing is that? With regards to the collapse of the universe, what kind of situation does the Failsafe indicate?

{Captions}:
(1) chaos, who is the Failsafe that exists for the sake of the safety of the entire universe; and Wilhelm, who exists for the sake of protecting the lower domain (DS-version)



　　　　When consciousnesses of rejection-- those that desire dispersal-- exceed critical mass, the imaginary number domain collapses, which causes the collapse of the real number domain and, as a result, leads to the collapse of the entire universe, swallowing up the upper domain. This is the universe's desperate, dangerous situation.
　　　　When a breakdown or error is produced in one part of a system, a "failsafe" is the function that keeps the effect from spreading to the entire system. It is for the sake of ensuring safety.
　　　　In other words, it is thought that the Failsafe is the system that keeps a problem produced in one section of the universe from spreading its ill-effects to all the world.
　　　　If that's the case, then it is thought that the function of the universe's Failsafe is something for the sake of avoiding the collapse of the entire universe, including both upper and lower domains.
[Refer to section: 01, 03]



　　　　The fact that the consciousnesses of people refuse to unify with the Collective Unconscious even to the point of wishing for the dispersal of the Collective Unconscious itself, from the point of view of the entire universal system, is the abnormal situation that deviates from what should be the natural form. The correction or removal of this abnormal situation before the ill-effects are spread to the entire body of the universe is the function of the Failsafe.
　　　　Frankly speaking, the Failsafe is the function that eliminates the lower domain.
　　　　Before the whole universe is caused to collapse, it is just the lower domain that is eliminated in a way that won't swallow up the upper domain. This can also be called the initialization of the lower domain.
　　　　The upper domain contains many lower domains. It is easy to understand when thought in this way: that parallel-world type lower domains exist. The collapse caused by the dispersal of the Collective Unconscious, due to its destructive damage, swallows up the upper domain as well. But the Failsafe by the power of Anima keeps damage such as that from occurring by eliminating only the one lower domain where the abnormality originated. Because of this, the upper domain will survive, and so also will other lower domains. In this way, the collapse of the whole universe can be averted.
　　　　The removal of one section in order to protect the entire system of the "universe"; that is the universe's Failsafe.
[Refer to section: 01, 02, 05, 13, 15]



　　　　It is chaos who possesses the function of the universe's failsafe, but in no way does that mean he wants the lower domain to vanish like that. Still, it persists that the power of Anima that he possesses will end up activating it.
[Refer to section: 13, 15, 16]

如我们所知道的,XS的宇宙分高次元和低次元,而CHAOS要保护的宇宙不是指主角所在的低次元,而是整个宇宙!也就是包括高次元宇宙和其它与紫音在的宇宙平行的低次元宇宙.但单一低次元宇宙的意识逃逸现象造成的宇宙崩毁会扩散至高次元和其它低次元宇宙,造成整体的崩毁,所以安全阀的作用就是把崩毁现象抹杀于单一低次元宇宙内,而不让它散播出来.
初始化的意思也和***掉差不多了.如果因为这单一的低次元宇宙被***掉会使得整个宇宙由于缺少了一部分而在出现问题,那么只是把这个出问题的宇宙格式化到初始默认值也是可以解释的.
最后那里偶的理解是"与那些希望逃逸的GNOSIS化的意识相对应,同时也产生能主动链接CHAOS的ANIMA的意识.而这个链接行为会使得ANIMA之力进入机能发动的阶段,也就是说,ANIMA之力已经准备好将这些希望逃逸的意识消去.因此,能给宇宙散逸能够继续的事件变少了."这里虽然有些东西没有明说,而是偶个人的理解,但应该没错额...

性感美少年

謝謝osk同學再次提供解答。

之前提供的日文scan版的确没有说得如此详细。这里的解释是，低次元的宇宙散逸将导致高次元以及平行的其他低次元的散逸，那么，安全阀的作用就是在这种散逸波及到高次元以及其他的平行低次元之前将其***掉——也就是初始化——比起整体被破坏，不如直接将部分解决，类似于截肢。嗯，原来如此。终于弄懂了……这么复杂的设定，为什么不在游戏中讲清楚？搞得人莫名其妙的……

顺便一提，scan的那本书貌似有400多页，那么，都有些什么内容呢？谢谢。

性感美少年

嗯，只有威尔海姆那个娘娘腔不知道他是什么东西了。低次元宇宙的守护者……话虽如此，他是从什么时候开始存在的？他和chaos以前有过什么因缘？

一切都是迷。

还有，玛利亚的男人，那个传教士一样的黑发男，到底在宣讲什么异端学说？XX功？

…………黑幕太大了。见鬼。

osk666

那两本都是攻略的说,你说其它是什么?
CEO的那个忘了,放英文PERFECT GUIDE的网站RP了.
那个传教士毫无疑问是在映射耶稣的说...

osk666

那网站终于恢复了,这是有关的解释:
19. Why did Wilhelm aim for Eternal Recurrence?
What really was Wilhelm, who aims for Eternal Recurrence? For what kind of reason did he aim for Eternal Recurrence? And, whatever kind of deep connection did he have with chaos and Maria?

{captions}
1&2) Zarathustra's Core
3) Wilhelm's personal craft, Joshua. Unlike the ESs, this one did not need to have an awakened Vessel of Anima.
4&5) The center of Michtam which became the gathering place for the factors of Eternal Recurrence.



　　　　The collapse of the whole universe which would envelop even the Upper Domain due to the scattering consciousnesses, and the wiping out of the Lower Domain (Dimensional Universe) caused by the Failsafe to avoid that collapse-- both would result in the same thing: that our human world would completely vanish.
　　　　In order to save our very Dimensional Universe itself from both of these threats, Wilhelm chose Eternal Recurrence.
　　　　Repeating the same fate, Eternal Recurrence does not negate the history which will once again move forward toward the threat of collapse. Nor will it negate the history that was painted in conflict and pain. But it is something that affirms all of such human affairs.
　　　　In order to keep the Dimensional Universe from being denied, the one who must choose Eternal Recurrence is one who accepts every pain.
　　　　Those who wish to change the past cannot implement true Eternal Recurrence. There are many people who wish to return to the past. However, the basis for that wish is a desire to adjust the past. But when unable to receive the regrets that dwell in the past, the present should be eliminated, and wanting to change the past is the cause of that.{iffy} That is something that is human.
　　　　Accepting every past that occurred in reality, without denying any of it, will lead to affirmation. This truly is the strength of the transcended man.
　　　　And so, the transcended man imposes on all people the repeating of a Hell-like history. It has been the only means so far that can be done for the sake of protecting the Dimensional Universe.
[Refer to section: 13, 14, 18, 20]



　　　　chaos is the existence that was actualized into the real-number domain by the power of Anima, the Failsafe for the sake of preserving the entirety of the universe, which includes the Upper Domain. Maria is the existence that was actualized into the real-number domain by the power of Animus, the function for the sake of restraining the power of Anima from running out of control. And there was also a power with the function for the sake of preserving the very Dimensional Universe, the Lower Domain, itself. That actualized existence was Wilhelm. In the same way as chaos and Maria, he too was an existence that was actualized into the real-number domain by a power that emanated from the imaginary-number domain.
[Refer to section: 15, 16, 17]



　　　　Just as chaos could instinctively use Lemegeton, Wilhelm possesses as a part of himself the Compass of Order and Chaos. Having lost all memory due to Eternal Recurrence, he instinctively comes to discover the power that he himself possesses by intently watching the movement of flowing consciousness. And then, by reading the movement of consciousness there, he begins to understand what he must not fail to accomplish.
　　　　He must protect the Dimensional Universe. In order to fulfill the reason for existence that was burdened on him, in order to escape from a future that was predetermined and inescapable, Wilhelm submerges himself in darkness, and from behind the scenes, spinning people, history, and events, he endeavors to guide all to Eternal Recurrence.
　　　　With each Eternal Recurrence, he repeats painful decisions such as these from a clean-slate, and continues to protect the Dimensional Universe. It is so that he can protect the ?fragile world that traverses atop the thinnest thread?.
可见,他是代表着单一的这个低次元宇宙,从宇宙开始就已经诞生,并且是有这低次元宇宙诞生出来的.并领导着宇宙走向永劫回归...

议长

我知道这些……我是说ceo这个人是从什么时候开始存在的……他明显不是人类，那么他是怎么诞生的，过去与chaos等人发生过什么情节……