白金了，果然游戏临摹的“samurai”只有型，没有神

ralfjones

你们都不知道楼主是哪号人物，他就是来捣乱的，居然还一本正经讨论什么切入点，我也真是服了[s:joy]

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来个逼乎标准回复[s:doge]：谢邀，人在对马岛，刚下蒙古船。史学圈太小，熟人太多，先匿了。这个游戏是请我的课题组的一个朋友的邻居的亲戚的萨摩耶做的顾问。怎么说呢，这耶水平有有些的，做顾问嘛还是差了些。当时sp本来是想找我的，不过我觉得这课题太trival，也有点忙，就推掉了，不然结果就不一样了。还要在圈子混，有些事情不能说太多，你懂的doge

中文英文都有了，但没有用到日文，差评。

selinajay

LZ不留余力开两贴来黑对马岛，也是辛苦了

survivor77

You might  want to see the documentary of the ghost of Tsushima history. These guys in SP were very serious and passionate in the historical details of their fictional world. Nate was so proud that he could understand the subtle distinction among those Shinto shrines and Buddhist temples, and he was obviously moved by the religious atmosphere around them in the process of producing the game. Yes I believe that a guy like this would really try his best to tell a serious story to express the idea of what make a samurai a samurai, in the range of his cognition.

我确实不太了解这些背景……我个人理解，对待素材采集的严谨性和创作表达的意图是两码事。不过这没关系……总之以一款还是娱乐性主导的产品去理解的话，平衡感不错。或许我是错的，毕竟我对古日本文化了解不多，理解力确实也有限。

朴念仁之逆袭

日本大河剧都不太用方言和古语

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survivor77 发表于 2020-7-28 16:50
游戏不过就是在整个文化背景当中作点状选取，要素为戏剧性/游戏性服务，而不是为保证其严谨的出处服务。对 ...

去读一下sara holdren的essay
https://www.vulture.com/2018/12/ ... t-my-own-enemy.html

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日本大河剧都不太用方言和古语

古日语和现代日语完全是两回事。就好比让中国人去春秋战国时期的古汉语说话。

原汁原味的同时，也不会说人话了。

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cakewalk 发表于 2020-7-28 22:05
You might  want to see the documentary of the ghost of Tsushima history. These guys in SP were ver ...

My quibble with this game is, to a certain degree, derived from the exact documentary included in the digital deluxe version (which I guess is also included in the physical copy if you purchase the bulkier collector's version). Yes, he did mention his learning to distinguish Shintoist shrines from their Buddhist counterparts from developing the game. The problem, though, is that his **ion of history, or the historicity of the themes the game sets out to explore, is based on the ahistorical treatment of the subject matter, a notion that you would find in the popular theory of Orientalism by Edward Said. If you really think about Shintoism, it is as a matter of fact the product of the development of Japan as a nation state in post Meiji Restoration era, when the notion of "Japan" gradually became a unified, homogenized, imagined community. If you trace the use of "shinto" or "shintoism" in historical documents, you'll realize that it wasn't in any way specialized or juxtaposed against other religions like Buddhism, and for an extended period of time, this word was strictly limited to the description of a certain ritual. In other words, Shintoism is a fairly modern creation, a product of modernity as Japan, coming together under a strong central government, engaged with a new paradigm to reckon with their existence. So the point here is, there's obviously an intention to present what he considers "authentic" about medieval Japan through the game, and the examples you listed only go to support this argument.  

The notion of authenticity is also a trap. As most college freshmen would be taught in a college-level history class, history is a reconstruction of the past from the standpoint of the present that projects into the future. Historicity, and the temporality thereof, reflects more about the "narrator" of history than history itself. This is evident in their understanding of "samurai." One of the things that he mentions in the documentary is his intention to present "Bushido" tenets. He started with "all eight" (no sure where he got those from) but quickly realized that the overwhelming information would not sit well with the storytelling, and he decided to go with two, loyalty and something else I can't think of off my head. And throughout the documentary, he was pushing the Japanese professor to give a succinct, decisive definition of "samurai," in a tone that I find eerily unnatural and disturbing. Despite the professor's effort to avoid talking in black-and-white terms and speak with nuances and in historical contexts, I don't think the developer understood why the professor was talking the way he did, the borderline Orientalist understanding of which is evidently present in the game. By situating a subject matter in the verisimilitude of its historical context only with the caveat that the context itself is mixed with other elements that serve to further a shared imagination or rumination of the said subject matter than to allow the subject matter to engage with the conditions that morphed its being, the game presents authenticity as an ahistorical common space for its consumers to revel in their fantasy of what they originally imagined the subject matter to be. Granted, a game is not required to push the envelope nor start a conversation on the topic it is investigating. Yet the illusion of "authenticity," or the feeling from gamers that the game was, beguiles the fact that, at its core, its **ion is supe**cial and structured on assumptions from their own imagination. Of course, as the producer of a **ural product, he is entitled to artistic license and creative liberty, yet to serve the goals he stated in the documentary, the end product unfortunately is stuck in the quagmire of the imagination of the "East" as an exotic, mysterious, historical, and thereby ahistorical land, a fascination that only feeds into a reconstruction of the past in the void of the past itself.

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cakewalk 发表于 2020-7-28 16:53
For your reference, 这里的“都”表强调，不是副词“全部”。所以这里没有矛盾。 ...

去掉都， “日本人不觉得" 和 ”绝大多数“ 不矛盾？
一个是over-sweeping的 generalization，一个是有限定词的泛指

multiple

只有一个感想----这货又放出来了