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DICE称《***4》PC版画质好 远超次世代主机

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发表于 2013-8-28 13:54  ·  上海 | 显示全部楼层
jksajd 发表于 2013-8-28 13:53
30 40 寸的电视你非凑到跟前去玩别人也说不了啥

30寸40寸我还真得凑到面前去,我觉得60寸以下,都必须要在1米之内才有震撼感啊。

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发表于 2013-8-28 13:54  ·  山东 | 显示全部楼层
superkong 发表于 2013-8-28 13:32
顺便说一句。很多人说ps3 360如何如何。要知道ps3 360上很多游戏的原生分辨率连720p都不到啊。

我只知道忍龙2 和分裂细胞5 其他还有啥 求指教...
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发表于 2013-8-28 13:55  ·  上海 | 显示全部楼层
jksajd 发表于 2013-8-28 13:54
我只知道忍龙2 和分裂细胞5 其他还有啥 求指教...

有个列表的,自己去百度一下就好.

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发表于 2013-8-28 13:56  ·  山东 | 显示全部楼层
superkong 发表于 2013-8-28 13:54
30寸40寸我还真得凑到面前去,我觉得60寸以下,都必须要在1米之内才有震撼感啊。

见仁见智吧 我以前pc接电视玩游戏因为用的是键盘 所以趴在餐桌上玩的 玩了一会觉得难受....
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发表于 2013-8-28 13:57  ·  上海 | 显示全部楼层
jksajd 发表于 2013-8-28 13:54
我只知道忍龙2 和分裂细胞5 其他还有啥 求指教...

Playstation 3

50 Cent = 1280x720 (blur filter)

Afro Samurai = 1280x720 (QAA)
Alice: Madness Returns = 1280x720 (MLAA)
Aliens: Colonial Marines = 1280x720 (no AA)
Aliens Vs Predator = 1120x630 (custom AA)
Alone in the Dark = 1120x630 (no AA)
Army of Two = 1280x720 (no AA)
Assassin's Creed = 1280x720 (QAA)
Assassin's Creed 2 = 1280x720 (QAA), 960x720 (QAA) -> 1080 mode.
Assassin's Creed 2: Bromance = 1280x720 (QAA)
Assassin's Creed 2: Revelations = 1280x720 (post-AA)
Assassin's Creed 3 = 1280x718 (black bar at top, post-AA)
Assassin's Creed 3: Side Story 1
Assassin's Creed 3: Side Story 2
Assassin's Creed 3: Side Story 3
Assassin's Creed 3: Side Story 4
Assassin's Creed 3: Don't Stop Dancing
Assassin's Creed 3: Higher
Assassin's Creed 3: My Sacrifice
Assassin's Creed 3: One Last Breath
Assassin's Creed 3: With Arms Wide Open
Assassin's Creed 3: The Ending DLC
Assassin's Creed 3: The After Credits Ending DLC
Avatar = 1280x692 (QAA, black borders)
Azura's Wrath = 1280x720 (no AA)

Backbreaker = 1152x640 (2xAA + blur filter)
Batman: Arkham Asylum = 1280x720 (no AA)
Batman: Arkham City = 1280x720 (no AA)
Battle Fantasia = 1280x720 (no AA, toggable blur filter)
*** 3 = 1280x704 (MLAA) black bars
***: Bad Company = 1280x720 (no AA)
***: Bad Company 2 = 1280x720 (no AA)
Bayonetta = 1280x720 (no AA)
Beijing 2008 = 1024x768 (no AA)
Beowulf = 1280x720 (no AA)
Bionic Commando = 1120x640 (no AA)
Bioshock = 680p (no AA, blur filter pre-patch)
Bioshock 2 = 1280x720 (no AA)
Bioshock Infinite = 1152x640 (FXAA)
Binary Domain =
Blacksite: Area 51 = 1280x720 (no AA)
BlazBlue: Calamity Trigger = 1280x720 (QAA background, no AA characters )
Blur = 1280x720 (2xAA + half-pixel, bilinear-filtered edge blur)
Bodycount = 1024x640 (FXAA?)
Borderlands = 1280x720 (no AA)
Borderlands 2 = 1280x720 (no AA)
Bourne Conspiracy, The (demo) = 1280x720 (no AA)
Brink = 1280x720 (no AA)
Brutal Legend = 1152x720 (no AA)
Bulletstorm = 1280x720 (no AA)
Burnout: Paradise = 1280x720 (2xAA)

Call of Duty 3 (screenshot) ~1088x624 (2xAA)
Call of Duty: Black Ops = 960x544 (2xAA)
Call of Duty: Black Ops 2 = 880x720 (dynamic? Instances of 832x624..., post-AA)
Call of Duty: Modern Warfare = 1024x600 (2xAA)
Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 = 1024x600 (2xAA)
Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3 = 1024x600 (2xAA)
Call of Duty: World at War = 1024x600 (2x AA)
Call of Juarez: Bound in Blood = 1152x640 (4x2 custom edge AA)
Call of Juarez: The Cartel = 1280x720 (custom edge AA)
Cars Mater-National = 1280x720 (QAA), 1920x1080 (QAA)
Castlevania: Lord of Shadow = 1280x720 (no AA)
Catherine = 1280x720 (QAA)
Chronicles of Rid***: Dark Athena = 1024x720 (QAA)
Command & Conquer: Red Alert 3 = 1280x720 (no AA)
Conan (demo) = 1024x576 (no AA)
Condemned 2 = 1280x720 (no AA)
Conflict: Denied Ops = 1280x720 (no AA) or 960x1080
Crysis = 1024x720 (TAA + edge post-process)
Crysis 2 = 1024x720 (TAA + edge post-process)
Crysis 3 = 1024x720 (SMAA T2X)

Dante's Inferno = 1280x720 (no AA)
Dark Sector = 1152x640 (no AA)
Darksiders = 1152x640 (no AA)
Darksiders II = 1152x640 (post-AA)
Darkness, The (demo) = 1024x576 (no AA)
Darkness II, The = 1152x600 (FXAA)
Dark Souls = 1024x720 (2xAA)
Dead Island = 1280x720 (custom edge filter)
Dead or Alive 5 = dynamic up to 1280x720 (no AA in-game)
Dead Rising 2 = 1024x576 (2xAA)
Dead Space = 1280x720 (no AA)
Dead Space 2 = 1280x720 (no AA)
Dead Space 3 = 1280x720 (FXAA)
Dead to Rights: Retribution = 1072x603 (2xAA) ?
de Blob 2 = 1280x720 (2xAA)
Def Jam Icon (screenshot) = 1152x648 (no AA)
Demon's Souls = 1280x720 (no AA)
Deus Ex: Human ** = 1280x720 (MLAA)
Devil May Cry 4 = 1280x720 (2xAA, temporal)
Devil May Cry (DmC) = 1280x720 (post-AA -> MLAA?)
Dirt = 1280x720 (QAA)
Dirt 2 = 1280x720 (QAA)
Dishonoured = 1280x720 (post-AA)
Dragon Age: Origins = 1280x720 (AA ?)
Dragon Age II = 1280x720 (MLAA)
Dragon Ball: Raging Blast 2 = 1280x720 (no AA)
Dragon's Dogma = 1280x608 (black bars, FXAA)
Driver: San Fransisco = ~1120x720 (2xAA)
Duke Nukem Forever = 1152x640 (no AA)
Dynasty Warriors 6 = 1280x720 (no AA)
Dynasty Warriors 7 = 1280x720 (no AA)

EDF: Insect Armageddon = 1280x720 (QAA)
El Shaddai = 1152x576 (no AA)
Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion = 1280x720 (no AA)
Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim = 1280x720 (likely FXAA, more aggressive edge detection than 360 iteration)
End of Eternity/Resonance of Fate = 1088x720 (2xAA)
End War = 1280x720 (2xAA)
Enslaved = 1280x720 (no AA)

F.E.A.R. = 1280x720 (blur filter)?
F.E.A.R. 2 = 1280x720 (no AA)
F.E.A.R. 3 = 1280x720
F1 2010 = 1280x720 (QAA)
F1 2011 = 1280x720 (MLAA)
FaceBreaker = 1280x720 (QAA), 960x1080
Fallout 3 = 1280x720 (no AA)
Fantastic Four: Rise of the Silver Surfer = 1280x720 (no AA)
Far Cry 2 = 1274x692 (QAA, black borders)
Far Cry 3 = 1274x702 (post-AA, black borders)
Fifa 2008 = 1280x720 (no AA)
Fifa 2010 = 1280x720 (QAA)
Fifa 2011 = 1280x720 (QAA)
Fifa Street 3 = 1920x1080 (no AA)
Fight Night Champion Online =
Fight Night Round 4 = 1280x720 (QAA)
Final Fantasy XIII = 1280x720 (2xAA)
Full Auto 2 (demo) = 1920x1080 (4x AA)
Fracture = 1152x648 (no AA)

Ghostbusters = 960x540 (QAA, pre-patch), 1024x576 (2xAA, post-patch)
Ghost Recon: Advanced Warfighter 2 = 1280x720
Ghost Recon: Future Soldier = 1024x600 (FXAA)
G.I. Joe: The Rise of the Cobra = 1280x720 (QAA)
Godfather II = 1200x720 (blur filter)
God of War: Origins Collection = 1280x720 or 1920x1080 (no AA), 3D is 1280x720
God of War Collection Volume II = 1280x720 or1920x1080 (no AA)
God of War III = 1280x720 (MLAA)
Golden Axe: Beast Rider = 1280x720 (no AA, blur filter)
Golden Compass = 1280x720 (no AA)
Grand Theft Auto IV = 1152x640 (QAA)
Gran Turismo 5: Prologue = 1080p mode is 1280x1080 (2xAA) in-game while the garage/pit/showrooms are 1920x1080 with no AA. 720p mode is 1280x720 (4xAA)
Gran Turismo 5 = 1280x720 (4xAA), 1280x1080 (QAA, TAA selectable), 1280x720 (QAA) in 3D mode
Guitar Hero 3 = 1040x585 (no AA)
Guitar Hero Aerosmith = 1040x585 (no AA)
Guitar Hero World Tour = 1040x585 (no AA)
Guitar Hero 5 = 1024x576 (no AA)

HAWX = 1280x720 (no AA, horizontal blur)
HAWX2 = 1280x720 (2xAA, full screen blur filter)
Haze (demo) = 1024x576 (2xAA)
Heavenly Sword = 1280x720 (4xAA)
Heavy Rain = 1280x720 (2xAA)
Hitman: Absolution = 1280x720 (MLAA)
Homefront = 1024x576 (no AA)

Ico = 1280x720 or 1920x1080 (MLAA)
IL2 Sturmovik = 1280x720 (QAA)
Infamous = 1280x720 (no AA)
Infamous 2 =
Incredible Hulk = 1280x720 (no AA), 960x1080 (no AA)

James Bond 007: Blood Stone = 1280x720 (2xAA + blur filter, half pixel, bilinear edge filter)
Jericho (demo) = 996x560 (2x AA)
Juiced 2: Hot Import Nights = 1280x720 (QAA)

Killzone 2 = 1280x720 (QAA)
Killzone 3 = 1280x720 2D, 640x716 3D, (both MLAA )
Kingdoms of Amalur = 1280x720 (no AA)
Kung Fu Panda = 1280x720 (no AA), 960x1080 (no AA)

Lair = 800x1080 (2xAA) - AA buffers are merged to produce 1600x1080 for further scaling
Legend of Spyro: Dawn of the Dragon, The = 1280x720 (no AA)
Legendary = 1280x720 (no AA)
LEGO: Batman = 1280x720 (no AA, slight blur filter)
LEGO: Harry Potter 1-4 = 1280x720 (no AA)
LEGO: Indiana Jones = 1280x720 (no AA), 960x1080 (no AA)
LEGO: Star Wars III = 1280x720 (edge detect blur filter)
Little Big Planet = 1280x720 (2xAA)
Little Big Planet 2 = 1280x720 (MLAA)
Lord of the Rings: Conquest = 640p (no AA)
Lost Planet = 1280x720 (temporal 2xAA)
Lost Planet 2 = 1280x720 (no AA)

Madden NFL '09 = 1280x720 (no AA)
Mafia 2 = 1280x720 (no AA)
MAG = 1280x720 (2xAA)
Marvel: Ultimate Alliance = 1280x720 & 1920x1080 (no AA)
Marvel: Ultimate Alliance 2 = 1024x576 (2xAA)
Marvel Vs Capcom 3 = 1280x720 (no AA)
Mass Effect = 1280x720 (no AA)
Mass Effect 2 = 1280x720 (no AA)
Mass Effect 3 = 1280x720 (FXAA)
Medal of Honor = 1280x720 (no AA)
Medal of Honor: Warfighter = 1280x704 (MLAA)
Mercenaries 2: World in Flames = 1280x720 (no AA)
Metal Gear Online = 1024x768 (2xAA, temporal)
Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriot = 1024x768 (2xAA, temporal)
Metro: Last Light = 1152x640 (post-AA)
Midnight Club: Los Angeles = 960x720 (QAA)
Mirror's Edge = 1280x720 (no AA)
MotoGP '10/'11 = 1280x704 (no AA)
Mortal Kombat 9 = 1280x720 (edge blur filter), one of the levels appears to be 680p. 1/2x1/2 transparencies, 960x720 in 3D mode
Mortal Kombat vs DC = 1040x624 (QAA)
MLB08: The Show = 1280x720 (2xAA) - The rendering window is adjustable down to 576p without upscaling to 720p i.e. the frame has black borders
MLB09: The Show = 1280x720 (2xAA) or 1920x1080 (no AA)
Motorstorm = 1280x720 (2xAA)
Motorstorm Apocalypse = 1280x1080 (dynamic) 2D, 1024x720 3D (MLAA)
Motorstorm Pacific = 1280x720 (dynamic down to 576p, 2xAA)
MX vs ATV: Alive = 1280x720 (no AA)
MX vs ATV: Reflex = 1280x720 (no AA)
MX vs ATV: Untamed = 1024x576 (no AA)

Nail'd = 1152x640 (4x2 custom edge AA)
Naruto Ninja Storm 2 = 1280x720 (no AA)
NBA07 (demo) = 1920x1080 (no AA)
NBA08 (demo) = 1920x1080 (no AA)
NBA Live '08 = 1280x720 (no AA)
NBA Street Home court (screenshot) = 1920x1080 (no AA)
Need For Speed: Hot Pursuit = 1280x720 (2xAA on cars, no AA on environment)
Need For Speed: Most Wanted (2012) = 1280x704 (post-AA)
Need For Speed: Pro Street = 1280x720 (QAA)
Need For Speed: Shift = 1280x720 (QAA)
Need For Speed: Shift 2 =1280x720 (MLAA)
Need For Speed: The Run = 1280x704 (MLAA) black bars
Need For Speed: Undercover = 1280x720 (QAA)
NFL Tour = 1280x720 (no AA, poor framerate)
NHL '09 = 1280x720 (4xAA)
Ninja Gaiden: Sigma = 1280x720 (no AA, has weird scaling to support 1080p)
Ninja Gaiden: Sigma 2 = 1280x718 (dynamic 2xMSAA, black borders)
Ninja Gaiden 3 = dynamic up to 1280x720 (dynamic 2xAA)

Operation Flashpoint 2 = 1280x720 (QAA)
Orange Box, The = 1280x720 (QAA or full screen blur...)
Overlord = 1280x720 (no AA)
Overlord II = 1280x720 (no AA)

Pirates des Caraibes (screenshot) = 768x1080 (no AA), 960x720 en mode 720p
Portal 2 = 1280x720 (MLAA)
Prince of Persia = 1280x720
Prince of Persia: The Forgotten Sands = 1280x720 (2xAA + blur? or quincunx)
Pro Evolution Soccer 2008 = 1280x720 (QAA)
Pro Evolution Soccer 2010 = 1280x720 (2xAA in-game, no AA cut-scenes)
Pro Evolution Soccer 2011 = 1280x720 (no AA)
Prototype = 1120x640 (QAA)

Quake Wars: Enemy Territory = 1280x720 (no AA)

Race Driver: GRID = 1280x720 (2xAA)
Rage = 640x720 up to 1280x720 (no AA)
Rainbow Six Vegas 2 = 1280x720 (2xAA)
Ratchet & Clank: Tools of Destruction = 960x704 (2xAA, AA samples used to reconstruct 720p)
Ratchet & Clank: A Crank in Time = 960x704 (2xAA, AA samples used to reconstruct 720p)
Red Dead Redemption = 1152x640 (QAA)
Red Faction: Armageddon = 960x540 (MLAA)
Red Faction: Guerrilla = 1280x720 (no AA)
Resident Evil 5 = 1280x720 (dynamic 0-QAA)
Resident Evil 6 = 1280x720 (Post-AA)
Resistance: Fall of Man = 1280x720 (QAA)
Resistance 2 = 1280x720 (QAA)
Resistance 3 = 960x704 (QAA)
Ridge Racer 7 (demo) = 1920x1080 (no AA)
Rise of the Argonauts = 1280x720 (no AA)
Risen 2: Black Waters = 1120x640 (no AA)
Rock Band = 1280x720 (2xAA, post-fx or lighting usually resulting in "no AA")
Rock Band 2 = 1280x720 (2xAA, post-fx or lighting usually resulting in "no AA")
Rock Band: The Beatles = 1280x720 (2xAA, post-fx or lighting usually resulting in "no AA")
Rock Band: Green Day = 1280x720 (2xAA, post-fx or lighting usually resulting in "no AA")
Ryu Ga Gotoku 3 = 1024x768 (no AA)

Saboteur = 1280x720 (edge detect)
Sacred 2: Fallen Angel = 1280x720 when sub-HD output selected, 1920x1080 for any HD output (no AA)
Saint's Row 2 = 640p (QAA)
Saint's Row 3 = 1280x720 (2xMSAA material pass), 800x450 (lighting & G-buffer passes)
Saint's Row 4 = 960x720 (fxaa?)
SCORE International Baja 1000 = 1280x720 (no AA)
SEGA: All Stars Racing = 1280x720 (2xAA)
SEGA: Rally Revo = 1280x720 (4xAA, alpha blend)
SEGA: Superstars Tennis = 1280x720 (QAA, 30fps)
Shadow of the Colossus = 1280x720, 960x1080 (MLAA), 720p for 3D
Shadows of the Damned = 1280x720 (no AA, higher AF)
Silent Hill: Homecoming = 1024x576 (no AA)
Simpsons, The = 1280x720 (no AA)
Singularity = 1280x720 (no AA)
Skate = 1280x720 (no AA)
Skate 3 = possibly 1152x640 (2xAA, super blur filter makes it diffi*** to determine exact res)
Sleeping Dogs = 1152x640 (FXAA)
Soldier of Fortune: Payback = 1280x720 (no AA)
Sonic & All-Stars Racing Transformed = 1280x720 (post-AA)
Sonic Unleashed = 880x720 (blur filter)
Soul Calibur IV = 1280x720 (no AA), 1280x576 in 1080p mode
Soul Calibur V = 1280x720 (MLAA)
Spec Ops: The Line = ~1120x640 (light FXAA?)
Spiderman: Web of Shadows = 1280x720 (no AA)
Spiderman: Shattered Dimensions = 1120x630 (no AA)
Splinter Cell: Blacklist = 1152x640
Split-Second = 1280x720 (2xAA)
SSX = 1120x585 (FXAA)
Star Ocean 4: The Last Hope = 1024x720 (2xAA, in field), ~930x512 (2xAA, in battle)
Star Wars: The Force Unleashed = 1280x720 (no AA)
Stormrise = 1280x720 (2xAA)
Street Fighter IV = 1280x720 (no AA), 1120x630 (in up-close character view)
Super Stars V8: Next Challenge = 1280x720 (2xAA)
Super Street Fighter IV = 1280x720 (no AA)
Supercar Challenge = 960x1080 (no AA)
Syndicate = 1280x720 (post-AA, dynamic res)

Tekken 6 = 1024x576 (2xMSAA w/o motion blur, no AA w/motion blur)
Tekken Tag Tournament 2 = dynamic 720x720 to 1280x720, mostly 1024x720 with 2 characters in-game (with motion blur), max 900x720 with 3 characters, max 800x720 with 4 characters (no AA in-game, 2xAA for character LED background or no-characters-environment-only/rankings view), more often 1280x720 with 2 characters no motion blur
Terminator: Salvation = 1152x648 (blur filter)
Test Drive Unlimited = 1280x720 (QAA?)
Test Drive Unlimited 2 = 1280x720 (MLAA)
Tiger Woods PGA Tour '09 = 1280x720 (no AA)
Tiger Woods PGA Tour '11 = 1280x720 (no AA)
Tomb Raider =
Tomb Raider: Underworld = 1280x720 (QAA)
Tony Hawk's Project 8 = 1280x720
Tony Hawk's Proving Ground (demo) = 1024x576 (no AA)
Top Spin 3 = 1280x720 (QAA)
Top Spin 4 = 1280x720 (QAA) 2D, 1024x720 (no AA) 3D
Transformers = 960x1080 (no AA)
Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen = 1120x720 (blur filter)
Transformers: War for Cybertron = 1024x600 (no AA)
Tron = 1280x720 (no AA)
Turning Point: Fall of Liberty = 1280x720 (no AA)
Turok = 1280x720 (no AA)

UEFA Euro 2008 = 1280x720 (no AA)
UFC 2009: Undisputed = 1280x720 (no AA in-game, 4xAA cutscenes)
Uncharted: Drake's Fortune = 1280x720 (2xAA)
Uncharted 2 = 1280x720 (2xAA)
Uncharted 3 = 1280x720 (edge detect) in 2D, 896x504 in 3D
Unreal Tournament III = 1280x720 (no AA)

Vanquish = 1024x720 (2xAA)
Viking: Battle for Asgard = 960x720 (2xAA) - AA buffers are merged to a 1920x720 framebuffer, which is then downscaled to 1280x720
Virtua Fighter 5 = 1024x1024 (no AA)
1024x768 en mode 1080p
Virtua Tennis 2009 = 1280x720 (QAA)
Virtua Tennis 3 = 1920x1080 (2x AA)
Virtua Tennis 4 = 1280x720 (2xAA) for 2D and 3D, 640x720 in 3D for cut-scenes

WALL E = 1280x720 (no AA)
Wanted = 1120x640 (no AA)
Warhammer 40,000: Space Marine = 1138x640 (post-AA)
Wheelman = 1280x720 (no AA)
Wolfenstein = 1280x720 (no AA)
World Series Of Poker 2008 = 1920x1080 (2xAA)
WWE 08 = ? 640x720 ? (2x AA) - les edges ont l'aparence du 1280x720 mais d'apres certain artefact il semble que ce soit le resultat de la fusion de 2 buffers MSAA 640x720
translation StefanS: "The edges give the impression of being 1280x720p, but because of a certain artifact it seems that it is the result of the fusion of 2 MSAA buffers of resolution 640x720"
WWE All-Stars = 1152x640 (no AA)

XCOM: Enemy Unknown = 1280x720 (FXAA)
X-Men Origins: Wolverine = 1280x720 (no AA)

Zone of the Enders HD = 1280x720 (no AA)
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发表于 2013-8-28 13:59  ·  上海 | 显示全部楼层
换句话说,ps3/360/wiiu上很多游戏实际的渲染分辨率,都无法达到 1280*720这个最基本的hd标准,很多游戏也无法达到60fps这个标注,至于aa,也很少达到4xaa这个标准。

这一切,都依赖于3米抗锯齿这个无敌法宝啊
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发表于 2013-8-28 14:01  ·  上海 | 显示全部楼层
我对本世代及格的标准,就是原生1280*720 30fps 4xaa,这是及格。
我对下世代的期待,是原生1920*1080 60fps 8xaa。

可惜了,主机做不到。

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发表于 2013-8-28 14:02  ·  北京 | 显示全部楼层
脑残EA这么说可真不给次世代主机面子啊

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发表于 2013-8-28 14:04  ·  浙江 | 显示全部楼层
113391987 发表于 2013-8-28 09:17
关键你主机还需要一台和titan价格相比只高不低的高清液晶电视机~~而pc至需要一台22寸的显示器

高清电视是家庭客厅标配,22寸显示器也是?

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发表于 2013-8-28 14:05  ·  山东 | 显示全部楼层
superkong 发表于 2013-8-28 13:59
换句话说,ps3/360/wiiu上很多游戏实际的渲染分辨率,都无法达到 1280*720这个最基本的hd标准,很多游戏也无 ...

这只是很少一部分游戏的列表吧  主机上的游戏大多应该都是1280x720 2xaa  画面对个人来说已经可以了  毕竟没几个主机玩家会凑到电视前玩游戏  而且那配置 好像已经非常非常落伍了吧 但画面和现在pc全高画质的差距大多数也不非常大 当然这也是见仁见智的问题....
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