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[讨论]游戏离艺术的最高水平还差多远

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发表于 2011-7-14 01:52  ·  江苏 | 显示全部楼层
lalaphin 发表于 2011-7-14 01:46
你每天吃饭拉屎就不是艺术啊。

你看个东西玩个东西爽了就爽了,说不出个深层次的理解就不是艺术啊。

艺术是让人愉悦?还是让人痛苦的?是让人窒息?还是能治鼻塞的?

这就牵涉到每个人对艺术的理解了

r君那边不是已经围绕八大艺术在谈感官论了么w

这个问题也可以围绕这个来谈,否则太过超了也麻烦

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说好的游戏性呢?

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发表于 2011-7-14 01:53  ·  美国 | 显示全部楼层
R神也别被他引到歧途去了,游戏可不是什么触觉欣赏的东西,完全是视听上面的感受。

触觉那是摸形状质感的。游戏的按键只是玩家大脑思考后的反馈而已,就像以前很多电影,比如基耶斯洛夫斯基的<盲打误撞>, 后来模仿他的《劳拉快跑》,里面几种偶然造成不同的结局,激发观众对人生反思,完全可以用游戏更好的实现。玩家的选择通过按键反馈会游戏,游戏再反馈给玩家相应consequence,让玩家更好的从不同的角度去看,去共鸣。这种体会跟电影表达的东西完全一致,还因为互动带来的进一步可能性而加强了。

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发表于 2011-7-14 01:55  ·  江苏 | 显示全部楼层
r君的说法是所有感官都是获取咨讯的手段

都可以成为了解艺术的途径

也没什么问题

征服者

绝对不会烂尾的!

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发表于 2011-7-14 01:55  ·  广东 | 显示全部楼层
raiya2 发表于 2011-7-14 01:42
你连这里几个人对你所谓的低等感官都说服不了,你还说服什么呢啊?游戏不就是在配合触觉欣赏的艺术么? ...

这个事实不需要说服谁,因为连你也不会违背这个规律。如果你故意要从此改成用触觉欣赏艺术,那是跟自己过不去。你在现实世界还是要按照现实的活法,这不是在论坛表表决心就能改变的事。
游戏是艺术么?先自己实践一下用触觉欣赏八大艺术的美好感受吧。
现在不是语词、科学、哲学的问题,是你自己都做不到你提出的那些反例。

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说好的游戏性呢?

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发表于 2011-7-14 01:56  ·  美国 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 lalaphin 于 2011-7-14 01:58 编辑
11kk22ii 发表于 2011-7-14 01:52
艺术是让人愉悦?还是让人痛苦的?是让人窒息?还是能治鼻塞的?

这就牵涉到每个人对艺术的理解了


Art
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This article is about the general concept of Art. For the categories of different artistic disciplines, see The arts. For the arts that are visual in nature, see Visual arts. For people named Art, see Arthur (disambiguation). For other uses, see Art (disambiguation).

Art is the product or process of deliberately arranging items (often with symbolic significance) in a way that influences and affects one or more of the senses, emotions, and intellect. It encompasses a diverse range of human activities, creations, and modes of expression, including music, literature, film, photography, sculpture, and paintings. The meaning of art is explored in a branch of philosophy known as aesthetics, and even disciplines such as history and psychology analyze its relationship with humans and generations.

Traditionally, the term art was used to refer to any skill or mastery. This conception changed during the Romantic period, when art came to be seen as "a special fa***y of the human mind to be classified with religion and science".[1] Generally, art is made with the intention of stimulating thoughts and emotions.

Evaluation
Philosopher Richard Wollheim distinguishes three approaches to assessing the aesthetic value of art: the realist, whereby aesthetic quality is an absolute value independent of any human view; the objectivist, whereby it is also an absolute value, but is dependent on general human experience; and the relativist position, whereby it is not an absolute value, but depends on, and varies with, the human experience of different humans.[2] An object may be characterized by the intentions, or lack thereof, of its creator, regardless of its apparent purpose. A cup, which ostensibly can be used as a container, may be considered art if intended solely as an ornament, while a painting may be deemed craft if mass-produced.

The nature of art has been described by Wollheim as "one of the most elusive of the traditional problems of human ***ure".[3] It has been defined as a vehicle for the expression or communication of emotions and ideas, a means for exploring and appreciating formal elements for their own sake, and as mimesis or representation. Leo Tolstoy identified art as a use of indirect means to communicate from one person to another.[4] Benedetto Croce and R.G. Collingwood advanced the idealist view that art expresses emotions, and that the work of art therefore essentially exists in the mind of the creator.[5][6] The theory of art as form has its roots in the philosophy of Immanuel Kant, and was developed in the early twentieth century by Roger Fry and Clive Bell. Art as mimesis or representation has deep roots in the philosophy of Aristotle.[4] More recently, thinkers influenced by Martin Heidegger have interpreted art as the means by which a community develops for itself a medium for self-expression and interpretation.[7]

Britannica Online defines art as "the use of skill and imagination in the creation of aesthetic objects, environments, or experiences that can be shared with others." By this definition of the word, artistic works have existed for almost as long as humankind: from early pre-historic art to contemporary art; however, some theories restrict the concept to modern Western societies.[8] The first and broadest sense of art is the one that has remained closest to the older Latin meaning, which roughly translates to "skill" or "craft." A few examples where this meaning proves very broad include artifact, artificial, artifice, medical arts, and military arts. However, there are many other colloquial uses of the word, all with some relation to its etymology.

Artistic works may serve practical functions, in addition to their decorative value.The second and more recent sense of the word art is as an abbreviation for creative art or fine art and emerged in the early 17th century.[9] Fine art means that a skill is being used to express the artist's creativity, or to engage the audience's aesthetic sensibilities, or to draw the audience towards consideration of the finer things.

Goethe defined art as an other resp. a second nature, according to his ideal of a style that be founded on the very basic fundaments of insight and on the innermost character of things.[10]

The word art can describe several things: a study of creative skill, a process of using the creative skill, a product of the creative skill, or the audience's experience with the creative skill. The creative arts (art as discipline) are a collection of disciplines (arts) that produce artworks (art as objects) that are compelled by a personal drive (art as activity) and echo or reflect a message, mood, or symbolism for the viewer to interpret (art as experience). Artworks can be defined by purposeful, creative interpretations of limitless concepts or ideas in order to communicate something to another person. They can be explicitly made for this purpose or interpreted on the basis of images or objects. Art is something that stimulates an individual's thoughts, emotions, beliefs, or ideas through the senses. It is also an expression of an idea and it can take many different forms and serve many different purposes. Although the application of scientific knowledge to derive a new scientific theory involves skill and results in the "creation" of something new, this represents science only and is not categorized as art.

Often, if the skill is being used in a common or practical way, people will consider it a craft instead of art. Likewise, if the skill is being used in a commercial or industrial way, it will be considered commercial art instead of fine art. On the other hand, crafts and design are sometimes considered applied art. Some art followers have argued that the difference between fine art and applied art has more to do with value judgments made about the art than any clear definitional difference.[11] However, even fine art often has goals beyond pure creativity and self-expression. The purpose of works of art may be to communicate ideas, such as in politically, spiritually, or philosophically motivated art; to create a sense of beauty (see aesthetics); to explore the nature of perception; for pleasure; or to generate strong emotions. The purpose may also be seemingly nonexistent.

审判者

说好的游戏性呢?

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发表于 2011-7-14 01:57  ·  美国 | 显示全部楼层
爱小熊 发表于 2011-7-14 01:55
这个事实不需要说服谁,因为连你也不会违背这个规律。如果你故意要从此改成用触觉欣赏艺术,那是跟自己过 ...

你说他不违背全人类都不会违背,他就不违背全人类也不违背,你好牛逼哦。

征服者

绝对不会烂尾的!

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发表于 2011-7-14 01:57  ·  广东 | 显示全部楼层
lalaphin 发表于 2011-7-14 01:44
你一会说什么你没有定规则,是总结的大多数人的方式。别人说大多数人对艺术的理解是很宽泛的,你又说这是 ...

泛艺术论是你这样连非艺术都举不出来的定义。
该用户已被禁言

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发表于 2011-7-14 01:58  ·  日本 | 显示全部楼层
爱小熊 发表于 2011-7-14 01:42
又回避我的问题了。你自己会不会用触觉欣赏文学和音乐?如果残疾了才使用这样无奈的欣赏手段,说明这种手 ...

你不是一直在回避我的问题么?为什么文学这个最基本的艺术不需要视觉听觉也能欣赏。而图画和音乐是设计来给你用触觉欣赏的吗?难道交响乐的时候,舞台上没有一群人在那里手舞足蹈么?说明这只是载体加工的技术而已。现在艺术载体,游戏,就是有能力加上触觉这个新上的要素了。你说游戏不是艺术,你想证明认为游戏不是艺术的人,都是触觉和手脑联系有问题的新型残疾人么?还是心里有问题的精神病人么?

我的理论因为我自己不能去实践,所以不具备现实性,你在开玩笑吗?你在否定你现在对于这个世界的一切认识吗?你又没见过柏拉图,你凭什么说博拉图这么说?你能证明游戏不是艺术吗?你的身体力行做得到这点么?



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说好的游戏性呢?

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发表于 2011-7-14 01:59  ·  美国 | 显示全部楼层
11kk22ii 发表于 2011-7-14 01:55
r君的说法是所有感官都是获取咨讯的手段

都可以成为了解艺术的途径

这我同意,感官只是用来接收信息,然后大脑才是处理信息。一个文件你用磁盘拷还是蓝牙传,最终都是到硬盘,其本质是不变的。

我只是强调游戏并不是光是触觉感受的。当然,震动手柄是靠触觉。

征服者

绝对不会烂尾的!

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发表于 2011-7-14 02:00  ·  广东 | 显示全部楼层
lalaphin 发表于 2011-7-14 01:57
你说他不违背全人类都不会违背,他就不违背全人类也不违背,你好牛逼哦。

当然人有自虐的权利,不过R神是干不出来的。
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